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Dartford And District - DebJon - 01-28-2007
Dartford and District - Open Show - 28.1.07
Judge - Francesco Cochetti (Italy)
Puppy - 7 in class
Debby and Bob Gracey - Debshores Giggle and a Wiggle - BP and BOB
Debbie and John Willett - Debeaux Kharim Truly Scrumptious
Carol Mead and C Hannah - Mifcahs Out Of Confusion at Chaucer
Mr R and W Seath - Penliza's Forget-Me-Not
Mr R and W Seath - Penlizas Pick Pocket
Junior - 3 1ab
Debbie and John Willett - Debeaux Decadence
Shirley Scott - Bakalo Siouxsie Q
Graduate- 3 1ab
Debbie and John Willetts - Debeaux The Gold Digger - RBOB
Pam Barten - Fleur De Lis at Saraten
Open - 6 2ab
Joy and Syd Beer - Debeaux Wellingtons Pride
Debby and Bob Gracey - Debshores Hogans Hero
Debbie and John Willett- Debeaux Washington
Shirley Scott - Tiny Tearaway Tipsy
Dartford And District - poppyjosh - 01-28-2007
Thanks for the results Debbie, congratulations to all winners <img src='http://www.shihtzuclub.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/claps.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':C' /> Looks like your hairy gang did very well, & well done Summer. <img src='http://www.shihtzuclub.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/claps.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':C' /> <img src='http://www.shihtzuclub.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/claps.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':C' /> <img src='http://www.shihtzuclub.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/claps.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':C' />
Dartford And District - DebJon - 01-28-2007
Thanks Pat, he really did Judge to type, as all the winners were related.
It was a very good show in lots of respects, in that it was obvious allot of effort had gone into it, flowers in abundance, royal blue tablecloths with gold fringes, lots of nice gifts, medals for class winners, bottles of wine for BOB and BP winners, but, the Judging at the end seemed to completely fall apart. The Russian Judge doing BIS, tried to judge as in the continent, but as he was Judging under KC rules, should have been guided as such.
The worst bit, was as they called in the BOB winners into the main ring, with a compere calling in each breed, someone forgot to make sure that the exhibitors moved forward, so by the time the Shih Tzu tried to make an entrance, she was only able to take about 5 steps into the ring! good job Summer is sound of temprement as the Akita tried to make a grand entrance reving up in the collecting ring to charge in to the main ring, but only able to take 2 steps before almost falling ontop of poor Debby as there was no room! the judge then decided even though he had not seem any dogs move, mainly because he was sitting down for the entrance of the breeds and couldn't see them, to then go along the ring and pull out 7 dogs as his final choices for BIS, having not laid a hand on them, nor having seen them all move? he then tried to dismiss all other exhibitors, uproar followed obviously.
The Committe tried to retain some order, but unfortunately, damage had been done and it will be interesting to see if complaints are lodged and if the eventuall BIS is allowed (one of the Akitas I might add) as it won from a variety class, not from AVNSC or Breed Class..for those that know the rules, this cannot be correct? I do believe that some very knowledgeable exhibitors, that run their own shows, have expressed their concerns, it was a such a shame, as this spoiled what had been a good day, with every attempt made to make it special for exhibitors. I do believe allot of money had been spent on fees, hotels, flights as all Judges were from overseas, prizes, but at the end of the day, the lesson would be, it's about the dogs and the fairness and quality of Judging!
Debbie and John
Dartford And District - Kengai - 01-29-2007
Well done everyone - shame such a good day had to be spoiled by an inexperienced judge, here's hoping some lessons will be learned.
Dartford And District - maggie - 01-29-2007
<img src='http://www.shihtzuclub.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' /> Well done to Debbie and Summer on you BP & BOB, to Carol and Jr on your first show, and to all the winners.
Reading the notes on the foreign judges alot of the judging is done this way for groups and BIS at national and international level over in Europe, I once asked a judge how they can do this and was told if a dog is constructed correctly it will move correctly and its what the judge likes, they also shake your hand while the whole class is standing before class winners are pulled out, and some exhibitors think they have won and in fact they are thanking you for your entry and dismissing you,
But I have also been under English Judges in Europe who have judged the English way much to the confusion of the foreign exhibitors, not all foreign judges judge this way as the majority of them go over the dog very well.
Maybe when shows are asking foreign judges to judge that they send a letter explaining the judging system here and maybe avoid what happened. Also the stewards should have stepped into help so he could understand the system abit more.
You have to feel sorry for the society who must have put alot of effort into the show and spent alot of money doing just that, and so up setting for the exhibitors who stayed behind not just to do the BIS but supporting fellow exhibitors
Maggie
Dartford And District - DebJon - 01-29-2007
[quote name='Kengai' post='71702' date='Jan 29 2007, 08:51 AM']>> a good day had to be spoiled by an inexperienced judge, here's hoping some lessons will be learned.[/quote]<<
Sorry Kirsty, but this isn't the case, the Judge, Dr Vladimir Urazhevski (Russia) - is The President of the Russian Kennel Club, he has bred and exhibited many, many breeds and made up many world and Russian Champions. He has judged in more than 20 countries, he now owns the largest kennel in Russia. he is not inexperienced.
The point was, that he was sat down as the Breeds entered the ring for BIS, (he was tiered after Judging all day) then the exhibitors were stood infront of him, he couldn't physically see the dogs. He then stood in the middle of the ring and simply pointed at dogs that were to remain, which was totally unfair as I said, the Akita hadn't been seen to move (there wasn't space), Debby only moved 5 steps, how can you asess movement from that?
I agree Maggie that the rules are different abroad, but we are been judged under KC rules, he should have been advised how it is done in the UK, the exhibitors sign the forms to abide by KC rules why not the Judge? in my opinion as Maggie suggested, something should have been written down for them to follow, or if you Judge overseas, you ask them how it is done? Dx
Dartford And District - ethelsmead - 01-29-2007
Well done everyone.
Jean <img src='http://www.shihtzuclub.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />
Dartford And District - Kengai - 01-29-2007
Sorry Debbie, I should have clarified my post by saying "inexperienced in KC regs" - that's what I meant to say.
Apologies.
Dartford And District - maggie - 01-29-2007
[quote name='DebJon' post='71716' date='Jan 29 2007, 10:21 AM']<<
Sorry Kirsty, but this isn't the case, the Judge, Dr Vladimir Urazhevski (Russia) - is The President of the Russian Kennel Club, he has bred and exhibited many, many breeds and made up many world and Russian Champions. He has judged in more than 20 countries, he now owns the largest kennel in Russia. he is not inexperienced.
The point was, that he was sat down as the Breeds entered the ring for BIS, (he was tiered after Judging all day) then the exhibitors were stood infront of him, he couldn't physically see the dogs. He then stood in the middle of the ring and simply pointed at dogs that were to remain, which was totally unfair as I said, the Akita hadn't been seen to move (there wasn't space), Debby only moved 5 steps, how can you asess movement from that?
I agree Maggie that the rules are different abroad, but we are been judged under KC rules, he should have been advised how it is done in the UK, the exhibitors sign the forms to abide by KC rules why not the Judge? in my opinion as Maggie suggested, something should have been written down for them to follow, or if you Judge overseas, you ask them how it is done? Dx[/quote]
I agree Debbie if its judged on the KC rules in England then thats how the judging should take place, in Europe the dogs are collected in a collecting ring and before they go into the group or the BIS, then the judge decides which dogs he is going to pull out even though all the dogs go into the ring, the judge does not always go over the dogs and just picks what they like the look of nor do they get you to move.
It is unfair that they can say what is a good dog and what is not just by looking, but they rely on the judges judging the breeds to put the best forward, you cannot asses a dog by getting it to move only 5 steps, and thats if you can see it, nor can you asses a dogs true movement by looks alone.
When judging here its totally different and I think ( this is only my opinion) that the societies that are running the shows should have explained either verbally or in written form the judging system here and followed that up with the steward supporting the judge.
There is a decline in numbers at show,s and if the clubs who hold the open or championship shows want to keep the support of the exhibitor then they have to ensure accidents like this dont happen ,as people now watch where they spend their money, and who they go under.
Hopefully this wont happen again and the next time if a foreign judge is doing the BIS then the society gives a little more suppot to them. The society seems to have put alot of effort in trying to improve things for the exhibitor and just seem to have fallen short at the end.
Maggie
Dartford And District - poppyjosh - 01-29-2007
What a shame, and I am sure there will be some exhibitors who feel strongly enough to complain very loudly to the KC. lets hope the feedback is constructive and the society can learn from this...